Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  30

  To all the newbies: How I've have adapted to life outside the Org

  by tooktheredpill in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i havent been active in the forum for some time, but i keep reading your comments every few weeks.

  ive noticed that there are many new members.

  welcome to jwd!!!

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  Doubting Bro

  Terrific update TTRP!! It's inspiring.
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  32

  Other Points From the Annual Meeting

  by jabberwock in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize that the latest clarification of the generation teaching has been discussed quite a bit on this thread.. but i think that there are at least two other important points from the annual meeting that have been, for the most part, overlooked:.

  1. the weeds of matthew 13 are not the churches of christendom, but apostates.. 2. showing love to our neighbors involves more than just the preaching work.

  (thanks for mentioning this rubadub).

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  Doubting Bro

  HB - I didn't realize that. I thought it included the churchs.

  This just reinforces the fact that very few are actually well versed on every teaching from the WTS. I thought I knew most of the stuff yet that slipped right by me.

  Their takes are so confusing and contradictory at times that they can pretty much do what they want doctrinally as long as they don't drop the no hellfire, no eternal soul, no trinty and paradise on earth teachings. Beyond that, I think the average JW really doesn't care because its too complex.
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  16

  Could the GB Perceive Preaching As Worthless?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we're seeing a lot of changes that suggest that a drift in attitude may be occuring in regard to the "preaching" work.

  the latest info on having (real) love for your neighbor(i.e.

  charity) is just more of the same.. they cut literature, magazines - and distribution of magazines and pray, pray, pray and still the donations don't come in to allow them to do what they want.

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  Doubting Bro

  I think the original goal of service was to sell literature. Sure, they got recruits and that also lead to $$$ but even if they didn't get the recruits, they still had a steady flow of cash from the publishers who were buying the literature and then reselling, er, placing.

  After that horrible decision to drop the set pricing to avoid taxes, they are left with the same model of using fs to move literature but they rely on voluntary contributions (again mostly from publishers) to provide their profit margin. However, folks may be donating the same amount they used to pay (maybe, probably not) but that was what, 15 years ago? Then, add in the fact that most of the growth is coming from poorer countries with less funds to "voluntarily" contribute and you've got the current cash crunch.

  The control mechanism is obviously a huge part of fs and I think they later learned they could use it as a touchstone to measure everyone's worth to the corporation. The more hours you have, the more literature you sell, the more money the corporation makes. Top male salesmen could be promoted based on their production.

  But, if you don't have the motive to move literature since selling literature doesn't have an acceptable margin anymore, it seems like you'd want to come up with another control mechanism with either busy work or legit work (such as in the case of the RBC).

  Organized preaching will always have to be there in some form or fashion because besides refusing blood and not celebrating holidays, its the only thing most people know about JWs. You can't drop your signature trait. But, I do think they will change the methods to reduce the amount of literature moved by going to tracts or special campaigns.

  There are a bunch of different senarios that I can picture where you keep the preaching work but leave it to pioneers (similar to what the Mormons do) or have everyone participate in special campaigns 4 times of the year with the rest devoted to something else. You could still keep the control no matter what the activity.

  I don't think for one minute the GB would ever completely drop preaching. But, I do think something is going to have to change to reduce the amount of literature produced to improve profit margins.
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  32

  Other Points From the Annual Meeting

  by jabberwock in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize that the latest clarification of the generation teaching has been discussed quite a bit on this thread.. but i think that there are at least two other important points from the annual meeting that have been, for the most part, overlooked:.

  1. the weeds of matthew 13 are not the churches of christendom, but apostates.. 2. showing love to our neighbors involves more than just the preaching work.

  (thanks for mentioning this rubadub).

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  Doubting Bro

  OTWO - I didn't think about that aspect but am in complete agreement. I have to believe that they are still making some money on literature or they wouldn't print it. But, I'm sure their margins have been drastically reduced and they need to find a new business model.

  I do think that more men would participate. Ever been to a KH clean-up day just before the memorial? It's usually held on a Sat morning. Every one I've ever been to has been 1)well attended, 2) everyone is in a good mood, 3) there's usually a nice social aspect to it with food, coffee and 4) there are always WAY more men present to do the handyman work & outdoor work than there EVER is for a Sat morning service group (with the exception of when the CO is in town). And, everyone can feel like they were doing God's work and not feel guilty about skipping service.

  It's a win-win but I think that's probably why the WTS won't do it. Although, I really never thought they would give up a meeting night either.

  This would be a nice fit if they wanted to Mormonize.
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  32

  Other Points From the Annual Meeting

  by jabberwock in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize that the latest clarification of the generation teaching has been discussed quite a bit on this thread.. but i think that there are at least two other important points from the annual meeting that have been, for the most part, overlooked:.

  1. the weeds of matthew 13 are not the churches of christendom, but apostates.. 2. showing love to our neighbors involves more than just the preaching work.

  (thanks for mentioning this rubadub).

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  Doubting Bro

  sir82 - you crack me up! I agree that I have a hard time seeing that but I also had a hard time believing they would cut out the CBS. If they are getting pressure in a few western countries (I'm thinking the EU here and not the US) about demonstrating they deserve their tax exempt status, you can bet your last dollar they will do whatever it takes to keep that status.

  Remember how quickly dropped the set pricing on literature after Swaggert lost his court case?

  It is all about the Bengies baby!

  Now, there's no way in Hades they would even consider doing this without a real threat to the NFP status for the reasons you state above.
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  32

  Other Points From the Annual Meeting

  by jabberwock in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize that the latest clarification of the generation teaching has been discussed quite a bit on this thread.. but i think that there are at least two other important points from the annual meeting that have been, for the most part, overlooked:.

  1. the weeds of matthew 13 are not the churches of christendom, but apostates.. 2. showing love to our neighbors involves more than just the preaching work.

  (thanks for mentioning this rubadub).

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  Doubting Bro

  Regarding #2 - There was a recent WT "study" article that encouraged JWs to do good for others in practical ways. It was maybe 2 months ago or so (I don't remember the actual date). I can look through my (non-highlighted) WTs and see if I can find the quote.

  If they were to maybe change the definition of service/ministry to include doing good for others, my guess is that it would be entirely to help keep their not for profit, tax free, status. You could meet at the KH on Sat mornings and break up into groups that would work on specific projects and report time spent. I know a bunch of pioneers that work at RBCs that get to count that time towards their annual hourly requirement so the concept isn't that radical.

  I'd bet they'd actually get a lot more participation and those hours spent would actually benefit more than just the gas stations and coffee shops that current field service does.

  Regarding #1 - I agree this would be a drastic departure from their current interpertation of Matt 13 but really, when did that ever stop them???

  I see #1 as happening. #2 I think is the best idea they've come up with in years and therefore not one that will be implemented. If it is done, then at least the community would see some benefit.
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  148

  Notes From the Annual Meeting - Oct 3, 2009

  by daniel-p in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a little bird... .

  interesting portions highlighted.

  notes from annual meeting (oct 3, 2009) .

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  Doubting Bro

  ynot - that is scary! Actually, I could totally see that happening!
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  148

  Notes From the Annual Meeting - Oct 3, 2009

  by daniel-p in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a little bird... .

  interesting portions highlighted.

  notes from annual meeting (oct 3, 2009) .

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  Doubting Bro

  I had a post all typed out about how they're going to spin this change as just a clarification, but upon further review, I'm completely confused.

  I thought the latest generation teaching was that it represented the "annointed" as a whole who witnesses the signs that Jesus gave. I thought they had in essense detached 1914 from the generation teaching since they said the generation was the annointed living during the last days. My take was that it left it wide open which of course isn't much of a promise from Jesus (this generation will see the end but generation really doesn't have any specific meaning) but it did allow them to keep the 1914 date without another failed prophsey.

  So, now they are saying that people who were alive in 1914 would overlap (but since most of those folks are dead, not actually see) the annointed who would actually see the end? How on earth is that a generation? This makes even less sense to me that the convoluted defintion they currently have.

  I agree that the pick of Barr was to make it easier to take the news that all the old timers are now expected to not see the end. I also agree that they may be trying to spin that into saying that the "new" annointed such as the GB members who are in their 50s and 60s are the ones that will see the end in their lifetime. Do you think they are going to make a push for a 2034 end date?

  An end-time cult without an end-time date is the fundamental reason why apathy is so high among JWs at the moment.

  Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting this.
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  126

  MY BROTHER-IN-LAW HAS DIED

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is one post i had always hoped i would never have to do, but after a long and brave battle, my beloved brother in law has died.

  i have done a couple of threads on this in the past, so many of you know the battles he was facing.

  he had been diagnosed earlier this year with myelodysplastic syndrome and the mortality rate of this disease is quite high.

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  Doubting Bro

  Mary,

  My condolences to you and your family in this terrible time of loss. Your post gives us a glimpse into how special he was.
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  13

  WT Annual Meeting is tomorrow, 3 October, 2009.

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anyone going?.

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  Doubting Bro

  I was just thinking about that. There were some rumors about new GB members but there have been very few leaks (that I've seen at least) on any changes. Leads me to believe that nothing major will come out.